Palm Foleo announced

As rumored, the big new device that's Palm's Jeff Hawkins has chosen to announce at the D conference today is the Palm Foleo, which the company is billing as a "mobile companion." Boasting a 10-inch widescreen display and a full-size keyboard, the device is intended to be used in conjunction with your smartphone, with any edits to documents made on one device automatically reflected on the other thanks to the device's Bluetooth connectivity. The device also promises to turn on "instantly," boasts built-in WiFi, and should last about 5 hours on a single charge. The pricing and release info leaked out earlier also look to have been spot on, with it now officially set to be released sometime this summer for $500 (after a $100 mail-in rebate). We'll have plenty more pics of it shortly, but for now you can check out one more after the break.

[Stephan @ May 30th 2007 2:22PM]

Sweet a $500 partially functional laptop....Oh wait never mind I can get a fully functional low end laptop with a 3G card for a about the same price.

[John Doe @ May 30th 2007 3:29PM]

The difference? This $500 partially functional laptop isn't used with shit ass components that will break on you within 1-2 years. I always find it amusing that people are toting these $500-$700 laptops and desktops as some great value. These are the same people who shop at Wally World and are amazed when their $80 TV stops working after a year of use.
Learn this: Cheap prices beget craptastic hardware.

How do I know all this. Dell service tech that does warranty work for Dell here...People always ask me why their cheap ass system is always failing. Being the good customer rep I smile and say "these things happen". The real reason is simple. You purchased a low end, bottom of the barrel system. Of course its going to fail.

As for this thing? Its using components that are found in a PDA so instead of it being a low end laptop its more a high end handheld PC. The problem is MS tried this 7 years back and it bombed because it sat in between PDA's and laptops. I'm not sure if this device is going to fare any better.

[mcaycedo @ May 31st 2007 1:47AM]

Yeah, sure. Costs the same that a cheap Laptop, and had half the funcionality; But, I assume It´ll have half the weight. So, I have a decent 14" Laptop, but is to heavy to carry all the time. If I have this machine with me all the time, I could make some work or read something in the free small time chunks during my day

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ May 30th 2007 2:24PM]

Do we need another PC?

Hell NO.

"Boasting a 10-inch widescreen display and a full-size keyboard, [...]"

Make that "a 10-inch wide touchscreen" - or even 8-inch - and I'm sold. Otherwise, I have a 12" powerbook already. (Which BTW, I have picked on eBay for precisely $500).

[umijin @ May 30th 2007 2:27PM]

Except your 12" G4 weighs twice as much and is 4 years old.

Dunno about the processor, but gotta be faster than the G4. If this thing ran the MacOS, I'd be ecstatic.

[jbulava @ May 30th 2007 2:24PM]

I'm I missing something? Cause I don't get it...

[Kevin @ May 30th 2007 2:25PM]

I seriously must be missing something. I just don't get who this is targeted at. I have a small laptop that tethers just fine to my phone. When I go on business trips, am I supposed to bring my laptop AND my foleo? Or leave my laptop at home?? Where's the added functionality. I really think I must be missing something so please englighten me, fellow engadgeters. The only market I can see this being viable is for those who can't afford a laptop. But if you can't afford a laptop, you probably don't have a smartphone... sheesh.

[Nobody important @ May 30th 2007 2:25PM]

I see no market for this. I would say it's a safe bet that 95% of people who own smartphones also own laptops which they use as their primary computers. Why would they give that up to carry around a slightly smaller but much less capable device?

[halfbreed @ May 30th 2007 2:26PM]

This is it? Really?
Oh dear, it's all gone really quite wrong for Palm.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ May 30th 2007 2:40PM]

"Except your 12" G4 weighs twice as much and is 4 years old. "

But it also has NO touchscreen.

I mean, Palm as innovator is in great position to finally deliver portable with NO keyboard.

Many many people do not buy smartphones, because screens are too small for them. Making a grown up not-a-smartphone sounds to me like good idea.

But with keyboard!? Uhm, I'm not interested.

[Wes @ May 31st 2007 1:48PM]

Um this things processor couldn't out do a G4 even if it were on steroids, and it couldn't run mac os or any other os other then the crap linux based thing it's already running, his pb would do circles round this p.o.s.

[umijin @ May 31st 2007 9:04PM]

Yeah - maybe you are right about the processor. Not sure they'll release that info.

[David @ May 30th 2007 2:28PM]

Palm needed some serious rescuing to get them back to the top...

Today was not that day.

[David @ May 30th 2007 2:30PM]

Has got to be THE dumbest device yet from Palm!

1) I'll sell you a mini-notebook that doesn't have half the features of a real notebook for more than a real notebook!
(eg. $499 for the Palm, $399 for the Acer 14" this month at Microcenter - although during Black Friday, they had a $199 Toshiba last year....)

2) It's not small enough nor large enough.
Not small enough to fit in a pocket, not large enough to surf nicely without squinting.

3) They've got SMALLER all-in-one portable notebooks that'll do it all - eg. OQO, Sony UX series, FlipStart, etc. Why charge two devices - phone + Palm - just to surf the internet over bluetooth modem docking when you can simply charge and carry one portable mini-notebook? Simply put a wireless cellular internet card into these mini-notebooks and that's all you need!

Doesn't make much sense, esp. when larger windows PDA/phones are out -- like that big one from Taiwan with 7" screen just out this year.

4) Storage space? Hope they stick at least a 80GB HD + USB/PCMCIA/slots into this thing - otherwise, where are you going to store those large multimegabyte presentations and downloads?!?

5) No XP/Vista compatibility. Thus, it may not be able to do all of the things we want wirelessly -- youtube, torrents, Dls, etc.

Can it even handle encrypted, signed, Adobe Acrobat forms?!?

6) Powerful cell phones coming.

iPhone, Nokia n95, etc. All with larger screens, powerful processors, document viewing/editing capabilities, GPS, and more in one device.

Boring device, death of Palm......

[jeffhas @ May 30th 2007 2:31PM]

They spent money on this? How about throwing money on an up-to-date OS for the TREO (which last I checked was still supporting the company). How about a slick, slim and sexy phone that was designed in the last five years - I mean the TREO was (and still is) great, but let's face it - every Blackberry/Pearl/BlackJack/Q is kickin' your chunky TREO butt.

There's about 6 months left on your lifespan Palm.... make the best of it.

[Kevin @ May 30th 2007 2:32PM]

And another thing... the processor isn't fast enough to play a damn video?? I mean okay so i'm trying to pretend I own this thing - one of the first things I'd want to do is play movies on an airplane trip - nope, no can do. I'm lost here...

[nycstern @ May 30th 2007 2:35PM]

Am I to understand that all it does is e-mail and the web? I would love a little machine with a full sized keyboard for notetaking and letter writing, and a few other things. It would have to run VNC though. The price feels a little high even with that capability.

[dcny @ May 30th 2007 2:35PM]

1st nail in the coffen

[christopherneal @ May 30th 2007 2:36PM]

I see it uses bluetooth. However, didn't Verizon disable the bluetooth Obex capability on their Treo 700P? If so, than all Verizon owner are out of luck.

[John Stracke @ May 30th 2007 2:39PM]

Better idea: make the phone smart enough to support an X terminal, then sell one this size. It'd be simpler and cheaper; and, when you don't have your terminal with you, you've still got all the same apps and data, because they live on your cellphone.

[Mad River @ May 30th 2007 2:43PM]

This might have been a hit, oh, five years ago...

[Otter @ May 30th 2007 2:46PM]

The drab gray color scheme doesn't add much to it's curb appeal. Honestly, I have too many devices to carry already, and this one doesn't seem to do all that much to help reduce my load. Sure it's only 2 lbs or so, but it's still another gadget to ponder whether its worth bringing along or not.

[Tyk @ May 30th 2007 2:46PM]

RIP Palm 19??-2007

Maybe if they sexed it up a bit, it would work... but, it already looks 10 years old or one of those toy computers from Fisher Price.

[Khris @ May 30th 2007 2:49PM]

Yet another tangent on the Palm road map that's inevitably going to lead to a dead end.

[brad @ May 30th 2007 2:52PM]

It took them 5 years to come up with this? Im seriously lost as to why i need one...


Lets see, its supposed to make emailing and editing documents eaiser....correct me if im wrong but i carry my phone with me to receieve those important emails and documents on the go..keyword here, on the GO, thats why the treo line is so great, you get everything you need in a small package and can enable you do some minor editing if needed....

at this point in the game, if im traveling and have a bag with me, it will contain a fully funtional laptop, not a 10inch screen and keyboard with extremely limited capabilites compared to todays laptop....i cant justify spending $500 for a device that cant be used on its own

[Mo @ May 30th 2007 2:52PM]

Tungsten TX with a slider keyboard . . .that is all we needed.

[Ozbone @ May 30th 2007 2:59PM]

So this exists because "sometimes you need to be able to look at that big spreadsheet" - emphasis on "sometimes" - but you gotta haul the thing around ALL of the time in order to actually use it SOME of the time ?? Stupid. Really stupid idea.

[nemi @ May 30th 2007 3:16PM]

hahahaha, the year 2000 called and wants it's Psion Netbook back.

(Ran EPOC, the UI that became the Nokia and High end Sony Ericsson phone OS , later models of psion Netbook ran WidnwosCE)

8 years ago I used a Psion Revo (the size of a PocketPC, but with decent keyboard) synced to my phone of IRDA to browse the web, send emials and SMS contacts. That would run a couple of days of a single charge.

Palm is so behind the times.

[icanvas @ May 30th 2007 3:04PM]

This blows. I'm all in favor of having an external keyboard and display for a powerful handheld, but let it be just that: a keyboard and display. The fact that the device needs its own processing and storage points to the fact that smartphones are simply not powerful enough yet, which means that this is nothing but a terrible laptop.

[Ondra Soukup @ May 30th 2007 3:05PM]

It's the VAIO TX ;)
lol

[David @ May 30th 2007 3:13PM]

I paid several hundred for a palm (original) and a flip-open keyboard, back in the day. This is more effective, and has wifi. I figure my morning surf can be taken care of with this, and for business trips all I do is email, but the smart phone isn't enough. I'll probably buy one of these, at the price. We have a fujitsu 10.6 inch laptop, but it was 2000 dollars. I'll take a 75 percent reduction in price.

[Lite @ May 30th 2007 3:19PM]

what a lame product!

why not edit on the Palm (phone)

yawn.....

[Frangible @ May 30th 2007 3:20PM]

Yeah, didn't I own this product when it was called the IBM Workpad z50? Cost a lot less too...

Funny, my Fujitsu P1610 weighs the same, is smaller, has a touchscreen display with higher resolution that is viewable outdoors, is faster, and has better battery life. Not to mention running Windows XP. Also uses my Motorola Q as a bluetooth modem.

Like subnotebooks are a new product?

Oh and yeah. My P1610 doesn't fit in my pocket either. Sure, it's ultraportable, but you still have to carry it by hand or put it in a bag. So it doesn't go with me "everywhere" like my smartphone does.

I don't see the Foleo getting anywhere. Most people think the P1610 is "too small". I don't think they really *want* a laptop that small. Look at the lack of success of the Toshiba Libretto in the US, which the later models (U100(?)) were more capable and much smaller than the Foleo.

Fact is, there's a partial solution to this problem already: folding keyboards. What was missing was a folding display-- not another stripped down subnotebook.

This product class failed miserably before (IBM z50 et al) and will fail again. There's a small niche for real Windows XP subnotebooks, but that's a small market at best.

[Iscariote @ May 30th 2007 3:26PM]

Your P1610 is more than twice the price of this. This also won't sell for $500 once it hits Amazon, etc.

[Frangible @ May 30th 2007 3:29PM]

And another thing. Part of the screen problem is Palm's own fault. They put 240x240 displays in their Treo 700s with WM, and meanwhile even the old Dell Axim X50s had 640x480 displays.

All Palm had to do was change the formfactor, to either clamshell (ie LG enV) or slider (HTC wizard).

Their smartphones are fat, and have small, low resolution displays. That's not a problem with smartphones, that's a problem with their design.

Alternatively, they could simply make a case for existing Treos with a thin screen that plugs into the Treo, and with a special driver, gets power and the display info from the Treo's connector. Fold the Treo open with the case, and bust out your folding keyboard. Problem solved.

[Art Kavanagh @ May 30th 2007 4:18PM]

The keyboard on your P1610 is not fullsized. Also, the P1610 has a hard disk.

They're two different approaches to the problem of portability. The Fujitsu answer is to shrink everything, including the keyboard. The Palm answer, it seems, is to avoid carrying around stuff that can be left at home, and are probably better off there, such as hard disks. I prefer the latter.

[Erik_the_Red @ May 30th 2007 3:24PM]

Doh!
That's it? That's Palm's big plan? To quote Porky Pig: "They're skwood!"

Said it before and I'll say it again. Palm should:
1. Blatently copy the Sharp Zaurus hardware (keyboard hidden out of the way unless you need it, just a big screen and thumb navigation in other cases)
2. Add phone capability and WiFi
3. Patch existing Linux-based PDA OS for Palm compatibility and interface
4. Quit screwing around and ship it to the users who have been waiting YEARS for a new Treo, and do it before Palm Inc. is forced to fold as a company.

Somebody really needs to smack every single person on Palm's board of directors.

[xxdesmus @ May 30th 2007 3:24PM]

Wow, well this is a crappy idea from Palm.

[Art Kavanagh @ May 30th 2007 3:28PM]

Details are a bit sparse but this looks like exactly what I've been looking for: a device with a full-size keyboard and a reasonably sized screen, without a heavy, noisy, power-hungry and vulnerable hard disk, light enough to carry without thinking about it. I take it that there's a web browser built in and that a text editor could be installed. At the moment, I'm using a Nokia N800 combined with a fold-up Bluetooth keyboard to perform these functions, but this has the apparent advantages of a much bigger screen and a keyboard that doesn't fold.

However, I'm almost in agreement with the poster who says it should have come out five years ago. Seven or eight would have been better, though I suppose it would have been difficult to manage without the hard disk then.

[Alex McKenna @ Jun 7th 2007 6:50AM]

I think a lot of the critics of the Folio have missed the major point - Weight.
Maybe it could be lighter of course, but as a photo-journalist I have given up lugging my 5 pound iBook around with me on trips, when I have two camera bags as well to lug on and off trains and buses! I'm making do with lots of big CF cards for the photos, and just wait till I get home to write my copy and sort the shots in Photo Mechanic on my IMac.
A light mini laptop would be VERY useful for writers, but I think something around a pound would be more practical and possible, without having to spend 2000 quid or more on a Sony. Not everyone needs videos or optical drives.

Alex Mac

[rob @ May 30th 2007 3:28PM]

Checked out the presentation on the palm site, saw a menu of apps on one of the screens:

Documents to Go - Word, Sheet, Slide
Email
File Manager
PDF Viewer
Photo Viewer
Terminal
Web Browser

I wonder if it will be at all hackable/expandable. I'd say if you can live with the feature set (or hack it to include your favorite feature) it might be nice. it would probably have better battery life and be lighter weight than a laptop. I'm skeptical that the device is worth $500 (especially without wifi) but I am craving something slightly more durable / lower power / lighter-weight than most notebook pc's.

[Stephan @ May 30th 2007 4:13PM]

I love the "they use cheap components argument". Do you work as an Electrical Engineer? I do and let me tell you allmost all parts you buy fall under the same tolerance levels, unless you are getting military parts that no commercial company EVER would do. Now on a Tube TV things are different beacuse you can buy different guns etc., but on a basically completly digital device the only really cheap component might be the LCD. The power supply might also not be as robust. But guess what the processors, the same. Memory the same. All the resistors, caps, diodes, inductors, etc. the same. Oh and the "cheap" motheboard. Well guess what it is just layers of Copper (well a lot more complicated but you get the point). Most of the board companies follow the same ISO standards. So go ahead buy your high end PDA, I will be happy with the "cheap" laptop that needs a new external power supply, or new battery in 3-4 years when I am looking to upgrade anyhow.

So what exactly is differnt in terms of components for a high end PDA compared to a low end laptop?

[DorianGray @ May 30th 2007 4:22PM]

@ John Doe

Thank you!

You put together good, quality parts at a realistic price and people whine and bitch about cost. You throw together ghetto-tastic components and sell it for $100 and the whole world buys it -- and then complains the piece of shit don't work.

Well god damn guys. Don't buy it. But some of us don't need a full-featured laptop to check our email and browse the web. I have effin 3 PCs and 2 laptops in my house and 2 PCs (and several other devices at my disposal) at my office. I don't always want to bring my laptop with me but wouldn't mind browsing the web or reading my email on more than a 240x240 screen while on the train.

So I'll wait til Amazon is selling these for $400 and pick one up. Is that okay fellas? Am I still cool like you?

[Wes @ May 31st 2007 1:49PM]

Wow John you are lame. This thing is a piece a crap. If I owned Dell I would Fire you right now for opening your fat ass mouth.
Your lucky you have a job with that attitude. This Isn't expensive because it's quality. It's expensive cuz they wann rip of suckas like u.
Have fun with that!

[Zak @ May 30th 2007 3:29PM]

http://www.palm.com/us/products/mobilecompanion/foleo/experience/index.html

wow the first words read "thoughtfully designed".....hhahahaha my ass......

i dont think palm can hold on much longer.

[WeakGeek @ May 30th 2007 3:36PM]

I think that Palm actually designed a slider smart phone as thin as the RAZR2 with LED back-lighting and a 12 hour battery but Apple paid them big $$ to delay it until after the iPhone launch.

They just dug this laptop out of the failed CE project closet from '98 and released it throw everyone off.

Now you'll have to excuse me while I go and sell ten shares in Palm so I can buy a single share of Apple stock...

[Jerry @ May 30th 2007 3:45PM]

I wouldn't even buy this for my Grandma. What a shame Palm so sad and so late.

[Ed @ May 30th 2007 3:48PM]

Actually, it would have been a decent idea if it were cheaper, thinner, and a bit lighter--say $200-250, and less than 1.5 lbs. Small keyboards and display screens are the main limitations of smartphones and why it's difficult to go without a laptop. Weaknesses of laptops include battery life, weight, and lack of instant-on feature. While many people note that you can get a laptop for $500, you can't get a 2 lb ultraportable with all-day battery life for much less than $2,000, and then you also have to buy MS Office and other apps.

According to the Palm website, the device has Wi-fi, so I could see how a FOLEO type device might enable you to leave the laptop at home for a short trip, especially with the proliferation of Web-based apps such as Google Docs, etc. If the device had truly all-day battery life (say 8-10 hour real use), and you could leave the charging brick at home, it would be a decent commuting device. As an aside, I wonder if the device requires a charging brick or whether you just plug a cord into it. That would make it pack even lighter. BUT $499 (after rebate!) is a crazy price. Don't think they will get many takers.

[Gaurav Sharma @ May 30th 2007 3:49PM]

Does anyone have a link to the spec sheet with dimensions/weight/resolution etc?

And please, guys, keep the knee jerk reactions to yourself. This product is *not targetted at replacing your notebook computer*. It is NOT a macbook or a thinkpad or tablet PC or nor is it trying to be. Get over yourselves.

I'm looking forward to seeing how they've overcome the traditional constraints of subnotebooks - all of which seem to be expensive, run hot and need extended batteries for any kind of decent stamina. If they've knocked out 5hrs from this thing using a traditional phone style 1500mAh or 3-cell battery whilst keeping the weight under 2lbs that'd be a first, for sure.

[murray @ May 31st 2007 3:17AM]

"I'm looking forward to seeing how they've overcome the traditional constraints of subnotebooks"

Simple - there's no hard drive, no expansion slots, and - oh yeah - no real computer. It's a screen, keyboard and some basic office apps in firmware. That's it.

"this product is *not targetted at replacing your notebook computer*"

They are saying "do more with less". In other words, when you're on the road, take this instead of your laptop. Sure, they don't say to throw out your laptop, but they're suggesting that a lot of people don't really need their laptop a lot of the time. Well, I've never met any road warrior who will leave their laptop behind on ANY business trip.

This is madness. The market for this thing is going to be tiny. It will fail.